Graham makes an important point. I think a “permanent” outdoor artwork of that scale absolutely needs to be engineered properly for the specific climate and site conditions. The artist should have a high standard on that point just as they would have high standards for the materials they use. For artists who are learning, it’s a good thing to gain knowledge about; the commissioning agency can help explain why it’s important. And as Graham points out, it’s a liability question. Even if no one sues, I would hope an artist would not want their structure to fail due to engineering miscalculation. It can be a public safety issue. In addition, the commissioning agency or whoever owns the site and the completed artwork can be sued, so a stamped engineer’s drawings, for whatever state the sculpture is in, is a cost just like the artist’s insurance, shipping, storage, material consultants, etc. Sometimes on large capital projects we have been able to use engineering services within the overall project engineering/design consultant and thereby saved the artists some cost. But the artist has most control if all their subcontractors that serve the fabrication and installation of the artwork are responsible to the artist, not someone else (unless it’s the site foundation, which can be the general contractor for the construction project). In short, structural engineers play an extremely important role, in my opinion.
Some structural engineers are licensed in multiple states, such as within a region. If the artist is based in a different state than the project, e.g. doesn’t know any engineers in our state (Massachusetts), we will recommend one or two structural engineers for them to contact, as Stacia mentions would be helpful.
Lillian
Lillian Hsu (she/her)
Director of Public Art and Exhibitions
Cambridge Arts
344 Broadway, 2nd Floor
Cambridge, MA 02139
T 617-349-4389; F 617-349-4669
From: public_art_network@americansforthearts.simplelists.com <public_art_network@americansforthearts.simplelists.com> On Behalf Of Graham Coreil-Allen
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2023 5:52 PM
To: public_art_network@americansforthearts.simplelists.com
Subject: Re: Structural Engineering Requirements for Artwork
I also agree with Julie and Stacia. Hiring a structural engineer to produce, sign, and seal plans is an expense the artist should factor into their budget and scale their project accordingly. They may need to scale down the work to save money to be able to hire an engineer to sign off on the project.
As a public artist I am sensitive to tight budgets, but also eager to make sure my liability is covered by working with appropriate licensed engineers and LAs. The last thing the client or the artist wants is to get sued for erecting something that ends up causing harm.
Graham
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 5:40 PM Stacia Goodman <stacia@sgoodmancreative.com> wrote:
I agree with you, Julie. As a public artist, I’d like to add one other thing.
Oftentimes, I’ll see that stamped engineering drawings are required from a qualified in-state engineer. That’s hard for out-of-state artists to source. I would really appreciate if the commissioning body (for example, a city or university) would connect me with their in-house engineer or recommend someone local. I’ll certainly compensate them from my budget if the RFQ states that up front. My challenge is more so finding the expert, so I’d appreciate collaboration — since we all have the same goal.
Carry on in art,
Stacia
Stacia Goodman, Lead ArtistPhone: 612.718.7946
On Nov 21, 2023, at 4:25 PM, Julie Barry <jbarry@Salem.com> wrote:
We are also currently experiencing some push back from some artist on this same thing, but they were stating that we are over engineering the project and requiring too much but we have countered with - we are not the experts and hope you are, but we need a 3rd party review for safety.
If the stamped documents are required as a stated deliverable in your contract with the artist for the stated fee in the contract, then it is the artist's responsibility to deliver the stamped documents as part of the stated fee.
That said, we as project administrators in turn have a responsibility to ensure that the artists' fees are sufficient to be inclusive of such a responsibly and not put the artist at an undue burden of debt.
Julie Barry
(She/Her)Senior Planner, Arts & Culture
City of Salem | Department of Planning & Community Development
98 Washington St., 2nd Floor | Salem, MA 01970
978-619-5685 ext. 42506 | jbarry@salem.com
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From: public_art_network@americansforthearts.simplelists.com <public_art_network@americansforthearts.simplelists.com> on behalf of Sue R. Steele <sue@steele.la>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2023 3:49 PM
To: public_art_network@americansforthearts.simplelists.com <public_art_network@americansforthearts.simplelists.com>
Subject: Structural Engineering Requirements for Artwork
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Hello All,
I’m working with an Artist and fabricator who has proposed a large artwork to be installed in a public plaza. Given the scale of the proposed artwork (15’ tall and 12’ across), our client is seeking assurance that the sculpture is engineered and fabricated in a manner that will be structurally sound when exposed to outdoor elements, including regional snow, wind and ice loads. We anticipated this assurance in the form of stamped engineering drawings (per our agreement with the Artist). However, the artist/fabricator has expressed challenges in preparing such drawings, citing budget constraints as one limiting factor.
Does anyone have experience with this or suggestions on obtaining safety assurances from an Artist. We are trying to find a reasonable solution without compromising the collaboration with the local artist.
Thank you in advance for any assistance.
Sue Steele
Landscape Architect
SSLA // sue@steele.la
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Graham Coreil-Allen, he/him
Public Artist & Placemaker
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